Talk:Qixi Festival

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Lantern Festival

元宵 is often refered as Chinese Valentine day also. The title of this article is somehow misleading as there is no real Chinese Valentine day. Wshun —Preceding undated comment added 21:26, 22 June 2003‎ (UTC)

I started out from the astronomical side of this, wanting to tell the story of Niu Lang/Zhi Nu as part of the mythology surrounding Altair and Vega. My problem was that I didn't want to tell the story twice, so I created this new page to hold the story. I was aware that the name "Chinese Valentine's Day" is not traditional and thus a little jarring but I also note that it is gaining modern acceptance and the women are going to make it stick I predict (plus where else to tell this wonderful story?). I was not aware the Lantern Festival is also sometimes called Chinese Valentine's Day. So I like your idea of putting both, but I'd rather give "top billing" to Qi Qiao Jie -- let me show you in an edit... technopilgrim

Inappropriate title

Qi Qiao Jie, what you call "Chinese Valentine's Day", is termed generically as Qíngrén Jié (情人節) or the "Day of Lovers". Both Valentine's Day and the Day of Lovers are about romantic love, but the customs are different, and the histories are completely unrelated. They are not equivalents at all. Moreover, the Day of Lovers is definitely not a copy of Valentine's Day or a sub-festival of the Valentine's, and the current title doesn't convey that, if anything, it'd encourage such ideas to those unfamiliar of China. Even if they were equivalents, why not call Valentine's Day "The Western Qíngrén Jié"?

Saint Valentine's Day in Chinese-speaking regions is called by its transliteration: Shèng Huálúntài's Jié (聖華倫泰節) or Shèng Wǎlúntīng Jié (聖瓦倫丁節). But because foreign names aren't easily remembered, the Chinese applied the Chinese name to it. But such application is unofficial, and we'd not do that in the Chinese Wikipedia. Instead, we'd create a disambiguity block or page in the article "情人節". --Menchi 02:16 23 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Agree! Qi Qiao Jie should be the title, not Chinese Valentine's Day. Moreover, the Lantern festival in HK could be a better candidate as an equal to Valentine's Day --- it is already merchandized to be the same!!! :P Wshun —Preceding undated comment added 02:28, 23 June 2003‎ (UTC)

I'm sold on the name change. Google counts show 594 references for 'Qi Qiao Jie', 137 for 'Chinese Valentine's Day', 118 for 'Qing Ren Jie' and 11 for 'Day of Lovers'. I'm changing the title to 'Qi Qiao Jie', please standby... technopilgrim 17:46 23 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Qi Qiao Jie is the correct title. See also a related case at Talk:Qing Ming Jie. —Lowellian (talk)[[]] 06:48, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)

"Qi Qiao Jie" is the correct title in China, and it also called "Qi Xi Jie". They called Chinese Valentine's Day it would easy to understand for foreigner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.147.144.19 (talk) 05:36, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

The reason for the term "Chinese valentines day" is that it makes westerners understand the romantic connotations to the festival, this is the english wikipedia after all, we have no idea what Qíngrén Jié is, but we know what Valentines day is. Though I agree that it is a bad title, it should be a description in some bread text under the title. 89.150.199.13 (talk) 12:59, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Qi Qiao Jie? Never heard of it before

I'm a native Chinese speaker in Taiwan and I've never heard of people calling it 乞巧節(Qi Qiao Jie) before. 七夕(qī xì) is the way we call it here. A search on Google also gives a 1,160,000-hit result on "七夕" and a 4,770-only on "乞巧節". Could the starter of this page tell us the reason to choose Qi Qiao Jie as its main title please? Is it a common usage in mainland China? --Gsklee 17:17, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Title Change Planned

Recently I've got enough evidence to convince myself that "Qi Qiao Jie (乞巧節)" is the name only being used in Cantonese exclusively. A search on Google will reveal that most of the websites using this phrase are constructed by Cantonese people (mostly from Hong Kong). "七姐誕" and "巧夕" also turned out to be Cantonese aliases as well.

A newest [Google] search result:

乞巧節-860 hits

七姐誕-434 hits

巧夕-295 hits

七夕-631000 hits

So, if no one is gonna to provide a convincing arguement that why 乞巧節 is better than 七夕 within a week, I will then change the title.--G.S.K.Lee 08:28, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Correct spelling

can someone correct the spelling of the word "comprecatedly" in the text of this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Al95521 (talk • contribs) 21:50, 14 February 2006‎ (UTC)

The Weaver Girl, The Cow Herder, and The Ox

An additional component/variant to the story that is quite common in both G-rated and adult rated versions is that for the Ox's meddling, he was punished with hard labor. This is sort of an allegory to not meddle with the affairs of heaven (or earth for that matter) or there will be a price to pay. While not an important concept related to Qi Xi, I believe that it is pertinent to the story itself, since it does not yet have its own page and its section in "The Jade Emperor" is significantly lacking. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.195.142.18 (talk) 18:56, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

Version in 'The Chinese Fairy Book'

A variant of the tale The Herd Boy and the Weaving Maiden is given in The Chinese fairy book

ed. by Dr. R. Wilhelm, tr. after original sources by Frederick H. Martens, with six illustrations in color by George W. Hood. Published 1921 by Frederick A. Stokes company in New York

Open Library: OL7036371M

Project Gutenberg EBook #29939

The note at the end of this version of the story is that it is retold after an oral source — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.123.40 (talk) 19:25, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Interwiki fork

I came across this article, and, surpised that it wasn't linked with the Chinese wiki article on the same topic, tried to add the link. Turns out, I can't, because there seem to be two seperate pages at play here: http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7224883 and http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q13423122. What was wrong with the old, simple system of adding an interwiki link, I don't know, but someone who knows what he's doing needs to merge those two, because I don't know how to do it. 90.245.22.213 (talk) 07:08, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Connection with Perseid meteors?

Complete speculation on my part, but given that this legend-linked festival falls roughly (being lunar-based and therefore variable by the solar calendar) at the same time as the Perseid meteor shower (which of course extends either side of its peak around 12/13 August), I wonder if the legend's element of a fall of rain/tears from heaven is inspired by the shower. Has anyone come across evidence of this? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 212.95.237.92 (talk) 16:50, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Why people always want to find associations?--77.0.243.42 (talk) 21:12, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

sparks don't fly down, january 2nd Hufflenerd (talk) 16:48, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Wording Change

This is one of my favourite legends, but I have a picky, linguistic change to the wording. Vega and Altair are stars and the young people are legends. In most mythological stories, the (real) star is the symbol for the (legendary) being, not the other way around. Please feel free to revert, but only if you can explain why it would be different here. Thanks & Cheers, Last1in (talk) 14:15, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

What are you want to be when you grow up

Doctor Police Soldier 41.122.76.251 (talk) 06:11, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 10 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Per consensus. However, the ideas along the lines of reshaping the content across multiple pages are worth exploring. – robertsky (talk) 17:53, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

---

Qixi Festival → Double Seventh Festival

1. "Double Seventh Festival" would be consistent with the titles of pages on other Chinese festivals, such as Double Ninth Festival and Double Third Festival.

2. "Double Seventh Festival" is culturally neutral. This festival is not specifically "Chinese", it is a general East Asian festival (see Tanabata and Chilseok). Additionally, the cultures do not coincide with modern nation-states, "Chinese culture" is not a single culture, and it should not be equated with the Northern Chinese (Mandarin-speaking) culture.

Of course, there are local traditions and regional differences, but the way it is celebrated among the Hokkien or Cantonese people is arguably as different from the traditions of Northern China as are Japanese and Korean ways of its celebration. Yet we don't have to split the topic even more into a Northern Chinese Qi Xi festival, Cantonese Tsat Tse Festival, Hokkien Chit Niu Ma Festival, etc. The "Double Seventh Festival" would be appropriate to cover all of the regional versions of this festival.

While we are at it, Zhinü should also be moved to Weaver Girl, and Niulang to Cowherd (Chinese mythology). These characters (especially the weaver girl) also have different names even in Chinese characters, compare 織女 (Mandarin Zhīnǚ and Korean Jiknyeo), 七娘媽 (Hokkien Chhit-niû-má), 織姫 (Japanese Orihime), 七姐 (Cantonese Cat1 ze2). Currently, Orihime and Hikoboshi refer to those articles, and there are no articles on Jiknyeo and Gyeonwu. That would also be consistent with the article The Cowherd and the Weaver Girl, which uses translated English names. QuestionableAnswers (talk) 11:17, 10 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 14:43, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Survey

Please begin your contribution to this discussion with a bullet and your !vote in bold (preferably either 'Support' or 'Oppose') before providing your reasoning. Don't forget to sign your post using ~~~~!

• Oppose - I agree with everything in the nom except the move itself. This page should be limited to the Chinese festival named Qixi, separate from the related Double Seventh festivities in other areas, cultures and countries. Instead of moving this page, we need to create Double Seventh Festival, move unrelated info into it, and refocus this article. The new page should have overall info and short summaries of the various cultural relationships, and this article should focus on those elements that are unique to Qixi. As example, please see Lunar New Year versus Chinese New Year, Tết and Tsagaan Sar, or Midsummer versus Jaanipäev, Kupala Night, and Jāņi. Cheers, Last1in (talk) 13:08, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
  • I am not discussing the content or the purpose of the page, only the title. This "Chinese festival" is named 七夕 Qīxī only in Mandarin Chinese. In Hokkien, it is called 七娘媽生 Chhit-niô͘-má-seⁿ, in Cantonese it is 七姐誕 Chātjé-daan, and in Japanese the very same festival is called 七夕 Tanabata. The underlying story from the Classic of Poetry is as relevant to the Chinese (North Chinese, Cantonese, Hokkien, etc) festival as it is to the Japanese or Korean festival.

It is not quite analogous to the case of Lunar New Year and Chinese New Year. The article on the Lunar New Year covers not only the East Asian festivals, but also the South Asian and Middle Eastern lunar New Years. Note also how the Chinese New Year is named in English, not with its Mandarin name Chunjie. QuestionableAnswers (talk) 15:44, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Retinalsummer (talk) 11:02, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, mostly in agreement with Last1in. Tanabata and Chilseok are related but are not celebrated in the same way. Renaming the page would seem to require the page to cover all of these festivals, while this page basically deals with the (original) Chinese iteration, and we would be left without a specific page for the Chinese version. Dekimasuよ! 12:07, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
  • 1. Tanabata and Chilseok should be at least mentioned on this page regardless of its title. Not necessarily covered in detail though, since they have their own pages. Compare the page on Dragon Boat Festival: the fact that its title is in English does not require it to cover Tango no sekku and Dano.

2. This impression is exactly the problem with the current title. There is no "original Chinese iteration" here. Versions of this festival found in ancient Han, in medieval Song and among modern Cantonese, Hoklo, Northern Chinese, etc, are all "related but not celebrated in the same way". "Qixi" is the name of this festival in Mandarin Chinese, it is called differently in other languages of China. Mandarin ≠ Chinese. Mandarin ≠ "original Chinese". QuestionableAnswers (talk) 13:06, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

• Regarding Weaver Girl and Cowherd, that should be dealt with separately on those pages to avoid getting into a quagmire here. Previewing that discussion, I think similar arguments to those I've made above would apply. The Cowherd and the Weaver Girl provides the core info about the story, whilst Zhinü and Niulang (should) describe the deities in depth, then provide the relationships between those religious/mythological beings and the main characters of the story. Those latter articles are incredibly weak and (inho) are unlikely to survive an AfD process on something analogous to WP:1E as applied to deities, but the analogy still holds. Cheers, Last1in (talk) 13:08, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
  • Again, the point is not the content of the articles, but their titles. There is no reason to use Zhinü and Niulang instead of, e.g., Orihime and Hikoboshi (both of them are actually more common according to Google Ngram). For pan-East Asian concepts, Mandarin names are no more relevant or representative than names from any other East Asian language. The English names are neutral in this regard.

However, I agree that these two characters, especially the Niulang, are not particularly notable by themselves, and it would be sufficient to just have an article on The Cowherd and the Weaver Girl. QuestionableAnswers (talk) 15:44, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

• It would be fine to have a merge or move discussion for those pages, but it won't be resolved here since they weren't part of the original request and editors at those pages haven't been notified of any possible change. Dekimasuよ! 12:07, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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