Talk:India

Democratic Backsliding

In the final statement in the history section, "India's sustained democratic freedoms are unique among the world's newer nations", we need to update it to include the rapid democratic backsliding and the rise of Hindu nationalism seen in recent years. Countless institutes and organizations, studies, and media sources cite this, and it is not a trivial matter to be ignored. I feel like it needs to be included in this article. A sentence or two should work. Some of the sources are Democracy Report 2024 by V-Dem Institute, Democracy in India by Chatham House[1], 'Electoral autocracy': The downgrading of India's democracy by BBC[2], Modi’s strongman rule raises questions about India’s ‘democratic decline’ as he seeks a third term by CNBC[3], The democratic backsliding of India, by The Hindu[4]EarthDude (talk) 16:49, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

It's been nearly two weeks and I haven't recieved any replies. Im adding this then EarthDude (talk) 16:11, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

EarthDude, the lack of response was probably due to the fact that you haven't given a single reliable source supporting your statements. — The Herald (Benison) (talk) 18:43, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

I added the sources now EarthDude (talk) 02:58, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

EarthDude, Not how it works in a featured article, which is also one of the oldest. You have to propose a change, backed up by reliable sources, and then establish a consensus from the community here in the talk page. I understand your enthusiasm, but you can go through the talk page archives to understand the process. Ping me or any other senior editor for any help. Happy editing. — The Herald (Benison) (talk) 04:03, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Those sources are brief ones looking at a very recent period of history. The current final paragraph is a summation of the last few decades. This covers a broad range of sometimes quite dramatic political events, which are not included here for reasons of concision. You may want to see how the content fits into History of India (1947–present). CMD (talk) 04:08, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Hmmm yeah I guess it's too recent for this. It has only taken place in the past decade and I also noticed that things like Emergency aren't in the article so year EarthDude (talk) 02:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Democratic backsliding is quite myth. Nothing has been seriously reported in last 4-5 years. The rise of Hindu nationalism is not democratic backsliding. Loveforwiki (talk) 07:35, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Exactly! 103.170.231.236 (talk) 08:52, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

It's a Wikipedia, you don't get to add your personal biased political view points here. Democratic backsliding has always been there and has decreased ever since the rise of hindutva. So kindly stay away 103.170.231.236 (talk) 08:51, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Add India as a cradle of civillisation

I request that the start of second paragraph we should add India is one of cradles of civilisation .Since its a well known fact.Verify here Cradle of civilization. Edasf (talk) 12:10, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Edasf, Talk:India/Archive 41#Shoud the Indus Valley Civilization be discussed in the opening section? and Talk:India/Archive 46#Addition Cradle of civilization can throw some light onto previous discussions on the topic. — The Herald (Benison) (talk) 14:05, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

@The Herald We can add the word only without adding wikilink.Adding this not here but on others can be inequality.I have seen that article and the section is very improved now.It can be added . Edasf (talk) 14:38, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Not appropriate for an unsourced edit to be added directly into the lead, especially if it adds no additional information. CMD (talk) 16:35, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis It isn't an unsourced edit see my first comment. Edasf (talk) 05:58, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

You have not provided a source here, and it is unclear which of the 190 citations on the linked page you are referring to. CMD (talk) 06:16, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis I have given link to article you can verify there.Thanks Edasf (talk) 07:43, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles are not reliable sources. Please do not use edit template requests without providing sources or gaining consensus for your proposals. CMD (talk) 08:50, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis Fine,you can see citations 6&7 in linked article.Now,please add it.Thanks Edasf (talk) 11:15, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

If it is to be added, it really needs to go in the "Ancient India" section, not the lede, as modern-day India is not the same entity. As you can see from that paragraph, examples of early hominids were found in areas such as Pakistan. Black Kite (talk) 11:15, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Then add it there only.And we can also add in lead using Ancient India or Indian subcontinent. Edasf (talk) 11:20, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Pinging @Fowler&fowler,@The Herald and @Chipmunkdavis for their approval or disapproval over it. Edasf (talk) 07:02, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Edasf, IMO, the addition is just superfluous. If the general consensus says it needs to be added, then it should go as per Black Kite, not in the lede. The lede doesn't need to touch that part of history and it is more than perfect as it is now. Thanks. — The Herald (Benison) (talk) 08:30, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

@The Herald I have added a comment after Black Kite that we should add there only at least. Edasf (talk) 08:34, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Edasf, Yes, I'm aware. Hence I said if the general consensus says. So far, there is no consensus. So I'd suggest you to wait till more comments come in. — The Herald (Benison) (talk) 08:36, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

I just saw this. "Cradle of civilization," is an imprecise (and catch-all) term and best not be applied to this featured article, which has been vetted by the WP community for quality.

Moreover, in my way of thinking, if it had to be applied to an ancient culture, it would be that of Mesopotamia and Ancient Egypt. For that is where Homo sapiens—who had originated in Africa and had survived for tens of thousands of years as hunter-gatherers—became a farming, and later irritating irrigating, people and gave rise to complex societies. We refer to this in the lead and reference Mehrgarh, where a neolithic culture had first arisen in South Asia, and in turn, gave rise to the Indus Valley Civilisation, the region's first urban culture. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:41, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I support adding the Cradle of civilisation sentences in the lead. Mesopotamia, Ancient Egypt and IVC are three oldest ever. Even in China page lead, it's been added meanwhile China came after IVC. Loveforwiki (talk) 17:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Absolutely i agree. It's well known, and it comes under top three major and oldest civilisation. Loveforwiki (talk) 17:04, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• @Edasf: I'm going to remove your, good faith, addition to the article because I don't really see consensus for its inclusion above. Also, do note that this article is about the modern entity named "India". Any "cradle of civilization" reference will refer to the pre-partition entity and not the current one. A chunk (perhaps the predominant chunk) of this cradle part is now in Pakistan. At best, the cradle of civilization reference belongs in the History of India article which covers the history of India prior to partition. RegentsPark (comment) 14:26, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

  @RegentsPark Fine I understand your concern Edasf (talk) 14:33, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

  I don't agree here, cradle part also comes in India in the region of Punjab, Haryana, Gujarat and Rajasthan. We can't ignore it. We can write the sentences the way it suit it's current geographic. Like we can write in the way.." India is among the cradle of civilisations with some region lies in Pakistan" like that we can write. Loveforwiki (talk) 16:11, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Apartheid in India?

there are some sources that claim this https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/02/13/india-hidden-apartheid-discrimination-against-dalits https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/23/an-apartheid-era-begins-in-india-as-does-a-moral-dilemma-for-its-allies/ Gorgonopsi (talk) 09:10, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Gorgonopsi, you need multiple reliable independent sources and peer reviewed scientific articles and studies to support the claim. One source cannot cover such a claim which is to be put on this featured article. Thanks. — The Herald (Benison) (talk) 09:24, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Human Rights watch is generally reliable.

https://www.hrw.org/legacy/campaigns/caste/presskit.htm

https://www.theglobalist.com/the-deplorable-parallels-between-apartheid-and-caste/

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2024/08/indias-anti-muslim-apartheid

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2014/2/28/housing-apartheid-in-indian-city

https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000123465 Gorgonopsi (talk) 09:27, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Ya, I support this. Sources like HRW and Al Jazeera are very reliable EarthDude (talk) 07:26, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

While there have been frequent caste and communal tensions in India, I'm not sure if adding this information would be beneficial, as similar geographical articles on the United States, Myanmar, or other African countries have not included it.25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^🍁 09:25, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Although the Hindu caste system is in some ways similar to apartheid, and I've casually compared the two myself in talk page discussions, the consensus of scholarly opinion in both Indian historiography and sociology has been not to consider either system to be a form of the other. Note also that the caste system does not only discriminate against the Dalits, though they have certainly borne the brunt of itse oppression. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

We should change the orthographic image in the infobox

Current version

Above here is the current orthographic map of India used in the infobox. It uses very oversimplified borders and has extreme levels of errors and inaccuracies. For example, it merges Syria, Lebanon, and Israel, into a single country, it merges Jordan and Palestine into a single country, it gives the landlocked country of Moldova access to the Black Sea, basically erased East Timor, among many, many more. I believe it is not upto Wikipedia's standards of quality.

I propose that we change this map to an edited version of the following:

Edited version

EarthDude (talk) 04:52, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

EarthDude, Your edited version doesn't show (modern) India at all. It shows Indian subcontinent. — The Herald (Benison) (talk) 09:01, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Thats because I'm just tryna gauge consensus here. I wanna see if people actually wanna change it and then I'll probably make the edited version with India's actual current borders, with dark green in all Indian territories and light green in territories India claims EarthDude (talk) 17:40, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

EarthDude, good initiative, but consensus doesn't work like that. You have to provide proper edited version you believe is the most appropriate one and then acquire a consensus for that one. This is one of the oldest featured article and the scrutiny is extra hard. I don't think any editor will agree to such a proposed change which is a crystal ball. Thanks. — The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:50, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't think consensus would be needed to update the map to fix things like missing borders, but the svg globes seem hard to make, or most would have been fixed by this point. CMD (talk) 04:15, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Your map is showing whole Indian subcontinent add map of India. Edasf (talk) 15:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, i know. I wanna see if there's any consensus for change, and then I'll make the edited version of the map, using the second image, because it is quite high quality EarthDude (talk) 17:42, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

The second image is a png, we tend to use svgs for such maps. CMD (talk) 01:52, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Dont think someone will look for Palestine or Timorleste here Edasf (talk) 16:29, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Mention or India's military power and membership of G20 Brics etc in lead

I wonder why it's not mentioned in lead that india is second largest active military personnels and it's part of G20, BRICs, Quad, east asia summit etc like it's mentioned in othet countries page. Why not here ?? Loveforwiki (talk) 03:47, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

@Loveforwiki. Feel free to add it yourself (with a citation). Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 03:53, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I have added it. But it has redirected to Wikipedia's pages. Loveforwiki (talk) 03:58, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

What makes these key facts to a brief understanding of India? CMD (talk) 04:01, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

It's just common reference of India's involvement in world like other country's lead. Loveforwiki (talk) 04:09, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Theoretically this lead is better than most others, and they should be adapted to fit this one. I do have my issues with the current lead, mostly the coverage of history crowding out the coverage of the current country, but changes to the lead should be considered within the context of this article and ideally backed up by sources, rather than copying other articles. CMD (talk) 04:14, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I haven't copied anything. It's just sentences that tells which of grouping India is part of.

Although the way the last paragraph of lead is written, like everything is compared to 1951 to current years. I also doesn't approve it. Obviously everything was devastated in 1951 because it got independence in 1947. Loveforwiki (talk) 04:23, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I thought you wanted to copy the format of the other country pages? If not, where do the content ideas come from? CMD (talk) 05:07, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Can you find any recent scholarly or at least geopolitical sources that are providing the same summary as want to add on the lead? Ratnahastin (talk) 05:10, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't requir this deep and complicated debate just to add simple participation of India in these summits. Mostly 95% countries lead pages have these information, Dont know what so special about India that mentioned here. Ok if it's added or not. I support to add these. Loveforwiki (talk) 07:33, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Hey guys... i am adding it's membership line of G20 and Brics etc.. kindly conclude this. Loveforwiki (talk) 16:12, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hey guys.. i have added it's involvement in intercontinental summits. Loveforwiki (talk) 09:54, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Humans made it to Australia before here

Humans made it to Australia before here bypassing India? 50.100.82.136 (talk) 01:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

This is the problem with random statistics in the lead....There is a debate if we where here before the Youngest Toba eruption as outlined at Clarkson, Chris; Harris, Clair; Li, Bo; Neudorf, Christina M.; Roberts, Richard G.; Lane, Christine; Norman, Kasih; Pal, Jagannath; Jones, Sacha; Shipton, Ceri; Koshy, Jinu; Gupta, M. C.; Mishra, D. P.; Dubey, A. K.; Boivin, Nicole; Petraglia, Michael (2020-02-25). "Human occupation of northern India spans the Toba super-eruption ~74,000 years ago". Nature Communications. 11 (1). Springer Science and Business Media LLC. doi:10.1038/s41467-020-14668-4. ISSN 2041-1723...... The debate should be removed from the lead and explained in the article in detail...... As the number 55 seems to be a synthesis of sources with an average guess compiled by Wikipedia editors.Moxy🍁 01:24, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Dear IP, The earliest identified anatomically modern human remains found thus far outside Africa are in Australia. That has been known for a very long time. But the human migration out of Africa is based on modern DNA marker evidence, both the mitochondrial which came to be analyzed with a fair level of certainty by the late 1980s and the Y-chromosome which did by early 2010s.

What appears in this article is only material that has appeared in introductory-textbooks, i.e. has been vetted for due weight. See WP:TERTIARY for the role of these text books in due weight.

The first book we have cited (in the sentence about human migration in the lead) is a first-year-graduate level textbook written by Michael Petraglia and Bridget Allchin, leading physical anthropologists. Naturally we give it primacy as their subject of specialization is most closely associated with human migration into South Asia. These authors say, "Y-Chromosome and Mt-DNA data support the colonization of South Asia by modern humans originating in Africa. ... Coalescence dates for most non-European populations average to between 73 and 55 ka." (where KA or KYA stands for "thousand years ago.")

The other two citations are also to textbooks, one the major historical demographer of South Asia, Tim Dyson,'s Population History of India, published by Oxford University Press in 2018, and the other the environmental historian, Michael Fisher's Environmental History of India, published by Cambridge University Press, in 2018. All three are cited in the lead, and all three citations have generous quotes.

We have not averaged out the various estimates, as @Moxy: has conjectured; rather, we have relied on the scholarly tertiary sources to do so for us. In particular, Tim Dyson says, "It is virtually certain that there were Homo sapiens in the subcontinent 55,000 years ago, even though the earliest fossils that have been found of them date to only about 30,000 years before the present." (as opposed to Australia, I might add, where the earliest fossils have been dated to 47 KYA).

So the fact that two leading physical anthropologists, Petraglia and Allchin, one of the human migration out of Africa and the other of India, and the leading historical demographer, had all three picked 55 KYA, is what clinched that particular date for us. Note we say, "By 55KYA ..." That means they might have come earlier, but no later.

Also for us, Nature Communications (cited by Moxy) whose average turn-around-time for first notice of acceptance is 8 days is not the best choice for supporting or discrediting the settled broadscale view of this article. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:09, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Sould drop 55 from the lead as its simply a Wikipedia guesstimation. And say in the body that there are two different answers:"Tthe 'early version' states that they came from Africa through the Arabian peninsula 74,000 to 120,000 years ago, bringing Middle Stone Age tools for hunting, gathering food, and making clothes. The 'late version' claims they arrived later, about 50,000 to 60,000 years ago. By 50,000 B. C. , tools were made in large numbers with organized workers and established communication routes for distribution."Joseph, T. (2018). Early Indians: The Story of Our Ancestors and where We Came from. Juggernaut. ISBN 978-93-91165-95-6. Should also link the articles we have on the topic so other can read about the debate Peopling of India.Moxy🍁 20:38, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

If you have a scholarly tertiary source, such as the three major ones I have mentioned, please add them here; otherwise, you are wasting community time. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:53, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes waste of time here Moxy🍁 13:06, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Disease and pollution

I would support the inclusion of the new material F&F reverted in this edit. Other views? Johnbod (talk) 03:32, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Johnbod. I'd suggest that you should move your opinion into the "Mention or India's military power and membership of G20 Brics etc in lead" section somewhere in this talk page. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 03:49, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Actually, don't do that. Sorry, I thought you were talking about something else. My bad. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 03:51, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

I personally is doubtful that it will be added back. Even if I provide hundreds of reliable sources, it may still be removed by those particular editors with their weird India-loving fetish. Cyanmax (talk) 05:28, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Ah, right, thanks - the addition was to India#Socio-economic_challenges. I may as well quote it all:

Epidemic and pandemic diseases have long been a major factor, including COVID-19 and cholera.

India has consistently been ranked as one of the most polluted countries in the world. Of the 100 most polluted cities in the world, 83 are in India.

Johnbod (talk) 03:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Johnbod. I, too, support the inclusion of the material recently reverted in the article. It might help to involve F&F in this discussion. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 04:08, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I expect he'll see it, but if not, what do you think User:Fowler&fowler? Johnbod (talk) 04:19, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

It is the middle of the night here. Not sure why I woke up. Perhaps I'm worried about our election tomorrow. Not sure why I clicked on the bell up top, which I do three times a year. It is perennially full.

Off the top of my head: So someone finds David Arnold's latest book and they've created a blurb from it and think it is good to include here. What other books have they read on health and disease in

India have they read? Have they read David Arnold's other books? Say Science and Medicine in Colonial India? Or, Burning the Dead? They have likely not if they have managed to reduce a sensitive and sympathetic historian's work to such a blurb? Do they know anything about Vibrio cholerae? Do they know it is endemic to a species of shrimp in the estuary of the Meghna river in Bangladesh? Only during major religious festivals such as Kumbh in Allahabad had the bacterium traveled upstream and create, for example, the world's first cholera pandemic. The other cholera pandemics were world-wide.

Speaking of Kumbh, do they know that it was a small religious gathering historically, which during the British Raj years was transformed into a major India-wide religious gathering. They might want to read Kama Maclean's book Pilgrimage and Power. Have they read Tim Dyson's A Population History of India, which has a much material devoted not just to cholera, but also to India's more lethal historical killer, malaria. There is material on the plague in the late 19th century, and on the many famines. See Timeline of major famines in India during British rule. This is a complicated subject not reducible to simple formulations. I'm not averse, obviously, to something being added, but it will require much more discussion and will take time. I have to go back to bed. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 08:15, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

People are better off reading a broad scale history book, such as Burton Stein and David Arnold's History of India, Wiley-Blackwell, 2012 (originally OUP), which is the sort of book we cite from in this article. Perhaps look in it for disease in India. Covid-19 is a separate story. India had the largest excess mortality of any country, some 47 million, which the Indian government has not accepted. Some say that the decennial (10-yearly) census has bee postponed because it might show a minor population crash.

Generally, secondary sources (such as Arnold's Pandemic India, or monographs) are not appropriate for this article. Introductory textbooks are. See WP:TERTIARY for the role of introductory texts in determining due weight. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 08:30, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Read this: https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/delhi-air-pollution-capital-breathes-toxic-air-as-aqi-severe-in-many-areas-details-101730777540525.html

India being literally the most polluted country in the world IS common knowledge, and yes, u are sabotaging this info due to your weird fetish. Cyanmax (talk) 08:32, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Please explain what my "weird fetish" is. I've spent a lifetime thinking about these issues. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 08:34, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Please note that I had added, "Among the socio-economic challenges India faces are gender inequality, child malnutrition, and rising levels of air pollution." in the revised lead prepared for Gandhi 150th WP:TFA in October 2019. It can be used to create three or four sentences with more details. Covid-19 was more global. Now I really do have to go back to bed. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 08:54, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

That sentence was added to the lead of this article. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 08:55, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

(In the morning) So, as you might have noticed, the sentence: Among socio-economic challenges India faces are gender inequality, child malnutrition, and rising levels of air pollution is already in the lead of the article. I think the India#Socio_economic_challenges would be the appropriate section to add expanded versions of that sentence. And obviously it would require better sources than Hindustan Times, a daily newspaper of infirm reliability. "Disease," is more problematic for a mention, especially in a section in which the picture shows health workers on Polio inoculation rounds (before polio was eradicated in India); in other words the picture itself mentions disease. If by "disease" we are attempting to make the case that the antigenic insult in India is greater than other tropical countries, that would be more controversial. But we could list the major types of afflictions: Dengue fever, typhoid, tuberculosis and some others. Cholera is no longer an issue, thanks in great part to the oral hydration supplement now availabe world-wide. Two American doctors, Nalin and Cash (who died just last week) were instrumental in its impementation. Anyway, why don't I write something up and propose it here in a couple of days? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:45, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Antigenic insult == An antigenic insult is a threat to health and survival that occurs when the body encounters antigens and pathogens. Antigens are foreign materials, such as pathogens that trigger an immune response in the body. The body has evolved to defend itself against antigenic insults with the immune system, which includes the innate immune system and the adaptive immune system Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Speaking of "dawdling" (see the last thread below), I'm noting that I'm owed something here. Please hold on a couple of days more. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 17:05, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 November 2024

"Change 'India, officially the Republic of India, is a country in South Asia.' to 'India, officially the Republic of India, is a country in Indian subcontinent, in Asia'" Hihelloplanet (talk) 09:21, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Hihelloplanet, redundant, IMO. The current term is better for an average reader, without cramming up unnecessary terms. — Benison (talk) 09:26, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

"South Asia" would have been equally redundant if "Indian subcontinent, in Asia" was the original description instead. Hihelloplanet (talk) 09:34, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Not done for now: The structure of the replacement sentence you're proposing seems unnecessarily long and a bit hard to read: "is a country in [the] Indian subcontinent, in Asia". Maybe a different structure would be a better replacement. Nythar (💬-🍀) 09:54, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I also agree with Benison: "India" is a country in the "Indian subcontinent" seems redundant. Nythar (💬-🍀) 10:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Its seemingly redundant because letters I-n-d-i-a are being repeated twice in the same sentence but "India" and "Indian subcontinent" are two different entities.

The sentence, "India, officially the Republic of India, is a country on the Indian subcontinent in Asia" is well descriptive of the geography and factually accurate.

IMO Its not hard to read. Hihelloplanet (talk) 14:11, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

"India, officially the Republic of India, is a country on the Indian subcontinent in Asia" Hihelloplanet (talk) 14:02, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Hihelloplanet your edits are making lead hard and we don't need such details in lead. Edasf (talk) 14:37, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 November 2024

Hi, for the motto, and the national anthem, since both are from a language that uses devanagari, why are we using the transliteration even there? Shubhsamant09 (talk) 23:44, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done You're supposed to suggest changes, not ask questions through these edit requests. It is unclear what you are suggesting. Please also note that Devanagari is a script, not a language. The language of the motto is Sanskrit and the language of the national anthem is Bengali (which has its own script). Finally, as you already know, WP:INDICSCRIPT. RegentsPark (comment) 00:59, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 November 2024

I want to modify the speaker word into house speaker which will be best to see in the page so please give me the permission for this that's all Roni0102 (talk) 16:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done Since you're looking to make a specific change, clearly state what it is and, if it is thought to be fine, someone will do it for you. But, please be very specific because your above statement is not at all clear. RegentsPark (comment) 16:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

The word 'Speaker' I want to change it to 'House Speaker' in Wiki page of my country this will be look good so please give me permission to just change it that only word Roni0102 (talk) 03:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Shouldn't be there....no mention in the article about the position or person. Moxy🍁 05:27, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

The chief justice and speaker were recently added in this edit without discussion or sourcing. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 05:40, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Discussion about add India's house speaker and chief justice in Wiki page

Good Afternoon to all my respected editors, I have a suggestion that I want to add India's house speaker and chief justice name in the page because many countries has their house speaker and chief justice name in their wiki page like USA so as an Indian I want to add their names in the wiki page so what's your thoughts about this? Roni0102 (talk) 08:08, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Best follow other FA/GA country articles that dont list them because of lack of mention in the articles or simply because of position non notibility on an international scale. Moxy🍁 08:42, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree to add the names of Speaker and Chief Justice, don't know what so exception for only India that's it's removed. Loveforwiki (talk) 09:45, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

So give me the permission so that I can add Speaker and Chief justice name Roni0102 (talk) 09:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Loveforwiki, the rationale is given by Moxy. This is a Featured article and, those positions aren't internationally notable for a general crowd. — — Benison (Beni · talk) 15:43, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, it's mentioned in most of the democratic countries. That's why it should be mentioned. Loveforwiki (talk) 16:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

So I want that permission for that because internationally India is now more popular so why not everybody needs to know who is India's chief justice and House Speaker Roni0102 (talk) 16:07, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

@Roni0102 Wait if you gets permission. by the way Wikipedia runs from west point of view, how the west sees the world. Loveforwiki (talk) 16:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

India is a featured article, or FA. That means its layout, lexicon, syntax, and style conform to featured article criteria and the article has had at least one major community review (WP's most rigorous) and likely more for older articles. Moreover, there are only eight nine country FAs on Wikipedia, of which India is the oldest, now 20 years old. If you examine those eight FAs, the other major ones—Australia, Canada, Germany, and Japan—have but two offices listed under government and they are not the speaker. Cameroon and Bulgaria do have longer lists, but I have not looked at their page-histories to see if they were changed after the community review. Nauru (around whose perimeter my late parents had once walked many moons ago) does have the speaker listed, but among only two in the list. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:39, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

PS And Madagascar, which is also major, certainly for lemurs, has only two listed under the government Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:50, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Loveforwiki, Once again, it has nothing to do with democracy. It all depends on the article quality. India is a featured article, one of the oldest of it's kind. Hence, it follows that guideline.
@Roni0102, Wikipedia works on consensus. You need to start a discussion in this talk page, demonstrating the need of inclusion of the speaker and CJ in the infobox, followed by proper rationale and guidlines. Then the editors of the page will decide via consensus if that inclusion is needed. Once again, I urge you both to go through WP:FA page to understand what a featured article is and how it is different from other pages on various (democratic) countries. Happy editing :) — — Benison (Beni · talk) 16:34, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

There must have been an edit conflict, but I didn't see your post Benison and ended up repeating parts of your reply. Apologies. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:40, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for all of this I understand now and sorry to disturb you sir and please forgive me if I done something wrong Roni0102 (talk) 16:44, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Not your fault @Roni0102:. We should really have an FAQ up top. I've been meaning to for ages, but dawdling (also for ages). Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:55, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Hey guys i think we should add the speaker name and chief justice in the lead. It's important part. Loveforwiki (talk) 04:20, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Loveforwiki, Kindly re read the messages and replies above. Clearly th3 consensus is against it. Thanks. — — Benison (Beni · talk) 09:19, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

hello sir someone removed the vice president name of India so sir can you fix that sir Roni0102 (talk) 08:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Only the head of state and the head of government. The other major featured artices, such as Australia, Germany, Canada and Japan, show only those. Please don't post again with the same question. We can't change what is there. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 10:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

@Fowler&fowler I previously replied his comment below. Edasf«Talk» 13:49, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I had seen your reply. It is the reason I (more or less} copied it in my reply, and later thanked you publicly. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:12, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

"Jana Gana Mana" is in Bengali and not in Hindi

Wikipedia's claim that "Jana Gana Mana" is in Hindi is totally fake. Jana Gana Mana has been written by Bengali Nobel Literate Kabiguru Rabindranath Tagore in Sandhubhasa or Sanskritised Bengali. The Jana Gana Mana as it's sung is the original one not a translation of Hindi. Please kindly change it soon. 106.221.114.3 (talk) 17:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

My understanding is that the original song is, of course, in Bengali, but the Indian national anthem is the Hindi "version" of it ("version" being the choice of word of the Constituent Assembly of India in the later 1940s when the discussion took place. By "version," apparently what they mean is this: As the song was written in Sanskritized Bengali, the choice of "Hindi version" by the Constituent Assembly of India was mainly to set the pronunciation of the Sanskrit words when singing, i.e. the anthem has "vidhata" and not "bidhata," which it would be in Bengali, or the Hindu pronunciation "jan" instead of "jono" in the Bengali. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:45, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

PS Compare, for example, the transliteration in Tagore's original Bharoto Bhagyo Bidhata and in Jana Gana Mana. Tagore's original, besides, has an apt name for the song, for according to his translation it means "Dispenser of India's destiny." But the official title (or popular title) now is the first three words of the song, "Jana Gana Mana," which in (Tagore's song's AI overview) means: "People (Jana) group (Gana) mind (Mana)" which doesn't tell us what it is about.

Unfortunately, this does happen in popular and official culture in a lot of places.

Regional turns of phrase, for example, are disappearing in many Western countries. It probably happened a little more in a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic post-colonial state such as India, where the Hindi speakers (perhaps from being speakers of the largest spoken language) attempted to turn their language into at first a national language, but failing that to the official language of the union. (see Hindi Day). Something similar probably happened to other Modern Indian Languages, many of which were regional languages, and Urdu, also, which was not regional. Thus Iqbal's children's song, Tarana-e-Hindi became Sare JahaN se Achcha. Even then, only five rudimentary couplets from it are sung in India's popular culture.

Unfortunately, we at Wikipedia can't do too much about these historical devolutions, which might not have been ideal. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 23:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Vice president name removed

I just saw now that India's vice president name was removed from there?? Why this position also internationally known so why it's removed so please add that name Roni0102 (talk) 15:32, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

N Not done: Good to simply add Head of State and Head of Government.Position of VP isnt that notable in parliamentry democracies like India Edasf«Talk» 17:12, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Change in CPI score and India's rank as per the latest report by CPI

Corruption in India is perceived to have increased during the last decade. According to the Corruption Perceptions Index, India was ranked 78th out of 180 countries in 2018 with a score of 41 out of 100, an improvement from 85th in 2014, but has increased during the last decade as India now Ranks at 95th out of 180 countries listed with a score of 39 well below the global average of 42 as can be seen at this https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023/index/ind

The previously mentioned data has not been updated for a decade now and needs updation in some shape or form. InspiredTheodore (talk) 01:05, 30 November 2024 (UTC)