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  1. Know if the category you are looking at needs deleting (or to be created). If it is a "red link" and has no articles or subcategories, then it is already deleted (more likely, it was never really created in the first place), and does not need to be listed here.
  2. Read and understand Wikipedia:Categorization before using this page. Nominate categories that violate policies here, or are misspelled, mis-capitalized, redundant/need to be merged, not NPOV, small without potential for growth, or are generally bad ideas. (See also Wikipedia:Naming conventions and Wikipedia:Manual of Style.)
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    1. Alternately, use the rename template like this: {{cfr|newname}}
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Special notes

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Some categories may be listed in Category:Categories for deletion but accidently not listed here.

Discussion for Today

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This page is transcluded from Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024_November_11


November 11

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NEW NOMINATIONS

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Category:Puerto Rico Adjutant Generals

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Nominator's rationale: Correct plural per Category:Adjutants general of the National Guard of the United States StAnselm (talk) 19:23, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional elements from anime and manga

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Nominator's rationale: Even though you could add Category:Anime and manga characters thoroughly improve the category, it will only contain just 2 subcats anyway...and besides, the only subcategory right now is Fictional mecha and it's not like that mechas only appears in anime and manga. You're better off to delete this category than to do anything else. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 19:20, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Trump administration personnel

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Nominator's rationale: Your reason(s) for the proposed rename. Vinnylospo (talk) 18:11, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should differentiate between the first and second go-around for Trump.

Category:Juvenile prisons in England

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Nominator's rationale: Duplicates Category:Young Offender Institutions. AusLondonder (talk) 14:56, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Archives in Togo

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Nominator's rationale: Merge also to

Category:Culture of Togo Category:Educational organisations based in Togo Category:History of Togo Category containing a single article, unhelpful for navigation. AusLondonder (talk) 14:42, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Restaurants in Cambridgeshire

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Nominator's rationale: Merge also to Category:Tourist attractions in Cambridgeshire and Category:Buildings and structures in Cambridgeshire.

Category containing a single article, unhelpful for navigation. Better categorised within parents. AusLondonder (talk) 14:12, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Further education colleges in Blaenau Gwent

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Nominator's rationale: Merge also to Category:Education in Blaenau Gwent and Category:Buildings and structures in Blaenau Gwent.

Category containing a single article, unhelpful for navigation. Better categorised within parents. AusLondonder (talk) 14:11, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Further education colleges in Anglesey

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Nominator's rationale: Merge also to Category:Education in Anglesey and Category:Buildings and structures in Anglesey.

Category containing a single article, unhelpful for navigation. Better categorised within parents. AusLondonder (talk) 14:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Theatres in Latvia by city

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Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:56, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Musical instruments played with drum sticks

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Nominator's rationale: Why do these exist? They are not actual categories like Category:Hand drums or any of the Hornbostel-Sachs divisions. The latter is a duplicate of Category:Hand percussion. Why? I Ask (talk) 18:36, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. But I admit I do not understand nom's rationale. While Wikipedia rightly uses Hornbostel–Sachs extensively, we need not restrict ourselves to this scheme of categorisation, and nothing in Wikipedia:Categorization supports doing this. Nor do guidelines mention actual categories (or have I missed it?) whatever these are. On the other hand these categories each refer to a defining characteristic. At the very least, nom should clarify their rationale and relate it to the guidelines. Andrewa (talk) 21:15, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    (Note that Andrewa is the creator). To clarify using formal Wikipedia terms, none of these categories are defining per WP:DEFINING. In fact, to say a snare drum can be categorized by its beater is wrong. Sure, it is played with sticks, but also soft timpani mallets, brushes (a type of specialty beater), and rutes. Hell, see Swerve by Gene Koshinski. The snare is played with hands, a triangle beater, and a door stop, and it is among the more popular solos for the instrument. The implements used to play percussion are non-defining given the nature of the instrument family and can be confusing for readers. Bongos is a hand drum but it is also incredibly common to play with sticks. I could place nearly any percussion instrument into all three of the first categories and it would be, to a certain extent, correct. Thus, these categories are useless. Why? I Ask (talk) 22:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, it is no secret that I created this category. Nor is it relevant. I still get a !vote. Or do you see it as a COI?
    A snare drum is certainly played with beaters other than sticks... I regularly use rutes. But it can also be played using sticks, and most normally is. This distinguishes it from tympani and the conga for example. (In fact playing either of these with sticks risks damaging the head. I suppose it's no worse than a prepared piano but please don't try it.)
    So to say that to say a snare drum can be categorized by its beater is wrong is itself wrong, in my opinion. Andrewa (talk) 21:00, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I won't be WP:POINTY, but if I wanted to, using reliable sources, I could put nearly all percussion instruments into all of these categories (like I said above). And what defines a "specialized beater" versus "drum stick" versus "soft mallet"? This is another issue with these categories. Why? I Ask (talk) 07:28, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No need to be pointy. Just provide these reliable sources. All you have said so far is that you don't like these categories. Andrewa (talk) 09:12, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: The question of whether Category:Hand drums... is a duplicate of Category:Hand percussion (as nom seems to think) is a separate issue, but as the owner of several hand cymbals I have an opinion on this too. I thank nom for bringing it to my attention... some suspended cymbals are played and intended to be played by hand, for example my awesome Paiste Traditionals 11" thin splash (scroll down to it). So some work is needed on the hand cymbals redirect... Also created I notice by the nominator of these deletions. I am investigating sources and should have them to hand in a few days... See User:Andrewa/percussion sources. Andrewa (talk) 00:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: More participation needed to form consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:14, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I am beginning to understand. Nom wants to use only Hornbostel-Sachs classifications as musical instrument categories, I think that's what they mean by not actual categories above. While the H-S classification is very useful, and in my opinion is correctly the one used in the musical instrument sidebars created by Template:Infobox instrument and its clones, it's not the only useful classification system and some of its terms and uses are esoteric... just for example clarinets are percussive in their terminology, while castinets are not. As a general encyclopedia, we should try to use terms and categories that our readers will understand.
To say that a snare drum is not normally played with drum sticks is as ridiculous as saying that a saucepan is not normally used for preparing food, and deleting Category:Cooking vessels on the grounds that cooking vessels can also be used for mixing paint.
And I think this saucepan analogy is useful in exploring the notion of defining characteristics. One of the defining characteristics of a saucepan is that it is a cooking vessel. But it is not always used for cooking. One of the defining characteristics of a snare drum is that it is played with drum sticks. Most snare drums are never played in any other way. But on occasions, they can be and are played with other beaters. The Top Secret Drum Corps regularly use fireworks. But most of the time even they use regular drum sticks. Andrewa (talk) 22:31, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Still need outside participation to form consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 06:05, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:19th-century American fashion designers

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Nominator's rationale: Duel merge: Underpopulated category, and per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_March_3#Fashion_designers_by_century SMasonGarrison 04:28, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The previous discussion rather calls for upmerging 20th- and 21st-century fashion designers, which I would support if nominated. Keeping "pioneer" designers in a separate category is less of an issue. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Italian-American Anarchists

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Nominator's rationale: Dual merge. Non-defining intersection. If not merged, it should be renamed to American anarchists of Italian descent SMasonGarrison 03:33, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:English radicals

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Nominator's rationale: Diffusing not needed for these underpopulated categories. SMasonGarrison 03:15, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Caves of Quebec

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Nominator's rationale: Not enough articles to justify, not useful for navigation. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 00:02, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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